dahliadave
Junior Member
"Chocolate" red seedling 5 plants in a 70cm pot in July.
Posts: 77 
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Post by dahliadave on Sept 30, 2014 22:43:42 GMT
You have started a really interesting topic here Raymond. It is a good job in a way that growers have better results with some varieties than others as otherwise the show bench could become dominated by just one or two varieties. New varieties are always coming along but you only have to look at the league tables in the Dahlia annual to see that very few varieties have broken into the top 20 in recent years. Have we reached perfection with the likes of Winholmee Diane and Mary's Jomanda, or is that elusive perfect variety still to be discovered or bred? When it comes to choosing new varieties from the many that appear each year I find it is getting harder and harder. So many are almost there but it is trying to assess how they will compare with the best in the relevant class. The season has its effect on how a variety performs as well. The variety Megan Dean produced such good blooms for us this year that visitors thought it must be a new one. The blooms were much nearer the ideals of a miniature ball than were the Mary's Jomanda. Hamari Rose was spectacular- and that is an old variety but the blooms this year would not have looked out of place on the benches.
It was mentioned that there isn't sometimes enough information out there on particular varieties. It is difficult to find space to include everything that people might want to know, like how many to grow up or is a variety better on a second stop. That is part of the learning curve unfortunately as everyone has there own ways and what works for one may not work for someone else as conditions will no doubt differ. Any info you can pick up is always going to be a good starring point but don't be afraid to try your own thing. We had some of the nicest blooms I have ever had this year on some Weston Spanish Dancer and Weston Pirate that were grown from pot tubers in 7.5 litre pots!
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Post by Raymond on Oct 1, 2014 0:16:58 GMT
Hi dahliadave it is all very interesting. Been looking at Essex results last year.dominated by ryecroft Helen med cactus and also winholme Diane. Not a moonlight in site. The candys shown and some kiwis plus the jomandas and a pink goldcrest. I would just love a little more info not on growing technique as that really is the skill we beginners need to learn but in selecting the correct variety and also in assessing what truly is a good dahlia and what is an exceptional dahlia suitable for showing that might not necessarily be the obvious choice. Your info is the most complete of most suppliers thank you so much. National dahlia collection gives almost no info which I think is astonishing. I am limited on my plant numbers so I need to keep it tight on the classes. I need to also probably go with bankers so the same ones. It would be refreshing to see other varities given a chance I love other med and large much more than hillcrest candy. I think gurtla twilight is an ugly colour yet has dominated poms this season. Sir Alf I think is shown far to much at the expense of others. Scrumpys Bonaventure looked amazing in pics. I also want to try some of great quality but a little different from the norm but showable if I grow them well. Perhaps the nds should look at a new class and ban the top 30 performing varieties and see what comes through ? That could shake things up ?? See something new or something old ! . For me it's not just about possibly winning something in the future ( a dream far in the distance) but trying as many as possible that will look great to my taste but will do ok if shown. I still want hillcrest royal think it looks stunning. Good night |
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Post by scrumpy on Oct 1, 2014 8:24:38 GMT
The other way of looking at it is that at the nationals, it is the same people showing year after year, showing the same varieties, therefore you are always going to get the same varieties winning. If we are to assume that Winholme Diane, the Moonlights, the Kiwis,maybe Kenora Challenger, are unbeatable then maybe have individual championships for them. Then, all other classes are for other varieties. But I suppose that in a few years, you'll get your top "other" varieties that everyone will grow  |
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Post by ian on Oct 1, 2014 15:07:35 GMT
Well I do not fully go with that, it is only a few growers that grow enough of the varieties that are in contention. But there are many exhibitors and many do make entries in the Nationals but do not always get them to the show. The varieties you mentioned Challenger, Moonlights, kiwis and Diane are all beatable but these are the varieties that are quite easy to grow and have very good formation and are self coloured therefore easier to match up they are also varieties that come up to size easily but they are beatable Hamari Accord is one that can compete with Challenger and unless people grow it then Challenger is the one to beat, the problem with Accord and Narrows Tricia is that they are quite soft and spot out like moonlights. It only takes one of the top exhibitors to favour a variety then other people will try it, there are many varieties that are capable of winning that have been forgotten De la Haye is one of them Stuart Clensy grew it I continued with it and now more and more is seen, it is harder than the Moonlights so does not spot out as readily. Over the last few years we have seen many more varieties being shown eg Daves Choice, Narrows Tricia, Oakwood Goldcrest, Ruskin Andrea, De la Haye, Mary's Jomanda. Jomanda, Ryecroft Jan, Marston Lilac, Rossendale Lewis, Ruskin Michelle, Trengrove Millennium, and many Pompons all championship winners in recent years.
Other smaller Championships again growers tend to grow similar varieties. Many many varieties are capable of winning but some need more work than others and all of us have our bankers and you need these if you are to be successful and lots of time invested looking after them.
Talk about introducing more classes well there are enough classes fir all our varieties it is just that the regular winners have hit on how to get the best out of their ground
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Post by Raymond on Oct 1, 2014 15:39:01 GMT
ian I saw De la haye it looks a cracker. Saw it on the nds website first only a small pic. Euro dahlia is doing it. Hope to see that shown in the flesh. I also like the ryecroft shown in Essex last year called Helen. A rather stunning looking med semi cactus. Looking forward to getting the annual and checking out the results.
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Post by Tel on Oct 1, 2014 16:47:04 GMT
ian I saw De la haye it looks a cracker. Saw it on the nds website first only a small pic. Euro dahlia is doing it. Hope to see that shown in the flesh. I also like the ryecroft shown in Essex last year called Helen. A rather stunning looking med semi cactus. Looking forward to getting the annual and checking out the results.
The results will be in the winter Bulletin, early next year, with the National, Harrogate and country wide results. |
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Post by Raymond on Oct 1, 2014 17:27:57 GMT
Thanks Tel I have that to look forward to still going with the recommendations the bulletin will help in picking some extras |
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Post by Tel on Oct 1, 2014 18:31:46 GMT
Thanks Tel I have that to look forward to still going with the recommendations the bulletin will help in picking some extras I don't think there will be much difference between the top show varieties at the National and Harrogate 2014 to what there was in 2013 and 2012. |
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Post by Raymond on Oct 1, 2014 18:57:01 GMT
Hi Tel don't have the bulletin from the last 2 years. I am more interested in what is shown in Essex, Kent, Thames valley, Surrey etc... As around me. I won't be showing in any open classes except perhaps bi colour. All the rest members section c and novice. The lowest level. None of them trophy or medal classes. As Moonlight says tiny steps |
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Post by Raymond on Oct 17, 2014 23:28:29 GMT
Question on American dahlias.
They have more classes than here in the uk. They have incurved cactus , stellar etc... Lots of colour classes.
Would dahlias of these classes be showable here ? Not ordering any from there but as we are seeing more clearviews for example being tried I thought I would ask.
They seem to have much more variety in terms of colour. I do like some of the incurved cactus would make a good garden show.
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Post by markb on Oct 18, 2014 7:22:17 GMT
Question on American dahlias. They have more classes than here in the uk. They have incurved cactus , stellar etc... Lots of colour classes. Would dahlias of these classes be showable here ? Not ordering any from there but as we are seeing more clearviews for example being tried I thought I would ask. They seem to have much more variety in terms of colour. I do like some of the incurved cactus would make a good garden show. The show scene in the USA is different from here in Britain. The main focus is on colour, form being secondary and size not seeming to matter - there are no penalties for oversize or undersize blooms in American shows. Another major difference is that the majority of classes are for a single bloom so uniformity of flowers is not necessary when deciding what to grow. As a result a grower in America may grow 250 plants in 240 varieties and take a chance on what is there on show day - no entries weeks in advance for them  Some classes could be showable - the stellar or star dahlias would be ok I think - but there is so much choice available here in Britain I don't think it would be worth the cost of importing the stock. Mark |
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Post by ian on Oct 18, 2014 9:40:44 GMT
The Americans are way behind with Dahlia showing we have the best in the world. We have the best growers of Dahlias in the world.
Any one of us can show single blooms but where is the skill there yes a riot of colouring the garden but no real skill in putting an exhibit together.
But again each to there own I am sure you will love it in America bo visage.
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Post by Raymond on Oct 18, 2014 9:52:57 GMT
Hi markb hope your well ! Not ordering from the states. Was curious as not seen a incurved cactus shown. I remember now you did mention about stellars apologies. The Americans make it easy for themselves ! Some things I saw on national dahlia collection only shown in the states eg parkland rave. Just playing with some ideas for front display. I will be trying a couple of the hapet dahlias which I can source here . Hapet ideal classified min sc bi colour Hapet Perfect would be fimbriated Both of these pictured in Ted Collins book from the nds. More than likely though all I will be classified though except a couple in very bold colours eg Stillwater brilliant. You trying anything new in 2015 ? Hope your going for the Welsh national  |
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Post by Raymond on Oct 18, 2014 9:57:39 GMT
The Americans are way behind with Dahlia showing we have the best in the world. We have the best growers of Dahlias in the world. Any one of us can show single blooms but where is the skill there yes a riot of colouring the garden but no real skill in putting an exhibit together. But again each to there own I am sure you will love it in America bo visage.  bo visage ? Do you mean bon voyage ian. Wouldn't mind going to visit swan island just to see their fields. Totally agree in what you said about skill. |
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Post by markb on Oct 18, 2014 10:28:36 GMT
Hi markb hope your well ! Not ordering from the states. Was curious as not seen a incurved cactus shown. I remember now you did mention about stellars apologies. The Americans make it easy for themselves ! Some things I saw on national dahlia collection only shown in the states eg parkland rave. Just playing with some ideas for front display. I will be trying a couple of the hapet dahlias which I can source here . Hapet ideal classified min sc bi colour Hapet Perfect would be fimbriated Both of these pictured in Ted Collins book from the nds. More than likely though all I will be classified though except a couple in very bold colours eg Stillwater brilliant. You trying anything new in 2015 ? Hope your going for the Welsh national Purely for a front garden display I think colour would be my primary consideration, so grow whatever takes your fancy. Only new one for me will be 'Hillcrest Duncan Edwards' if I decide to go to Midlands show. Only growing 10 varieties, about 100 plants with some being required for the end of July (Royal Welsh Show). Welsh National may be a problem unless I can get out of working the bank holiday - hence the possibility of Midlands. I also have the Welsh Branch Championships of the National Vegetable Society the weekend before and that will take priority over the dahlias unfortunately. Think I need to do some planning Mark |
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bo visage ? Do you mean bon voyage 
