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Post by Moonlight on Aug 27, 2014 22:44:53 GMT
The Candy's and especially the moonlights without weather protection spells disaster. The majority of smalls upwards need to be covered. Stick to miniatures, poms and a few small balls if you have no way of protecting them from the weather. The British weather takes no prisoners Imagine a Sir Alf after Sundays wind and rain.
I read here and try and learn as much as I can about growing dahlias but even so I still can't stick to Common sense Guide to growing dahlias.
My small garden has no covers but for lots of pretty randomly seemingly reasons I sort of grow what I want but don't assume that I can do what other people who a, know what they are doing and b, have covers to protect their dahlias.
I think that miniatures can grow well without covers but with me, I made the mistake of going to shows, looking at other peoples photos of their magnificent garden displays, looking through online dahlia catalogues, went to a dahlia plant sale (after reading up on varieties did well at the shows - very bad move, I ended up with a dahlia wish list which turned out to be effectively a shopping list.) - oh and then there is my Dad.
Right from the start I knew that if I grew good varieties well enough I would want to have a go in the shows, if my dahlias were in with a realistic chance . n.b. I'm not one with an eye as a potential competitor at the National or Harrogate, in the future.
When I started last year I wanted to grow a dahlia called Downham Royal. On one of the websites that I saw it on, I saw another dahlia called Happy Halloween. It's mega bright in your face pumpkin orange (it's not exhibition standard but it does make a good cut flower and general garden dahlia)
My list grew and I was very happy and lucky with most of my choices. I had 3 dahlias that grew massive and took over my garden: Mary's Jomanda, Jomanda and Staleen Condessa (Not recommended).
My plan to only grow miniatures, extended to poms and then ended up with a small ball called Red Balloon, Staleen Condessa, Peach Delight, Ruskin Bride (Not recommended) which are mediums that my Dad gave me as I had a couple of extra spaces left and an Eastwood Moonlight. Red Balloon I could hardly see but gave me quite a lot of seed so I decided to grow it this year. Peach Delight also suffered big time but I had one really lovely bloom from that which snapped in bad weather. Grew that one again lovely blooms which I took to show and won. My Eastwood Moonlight also suffered because of other varieties too big, leaning into varieties next to my Moonlight. Grown it again this year and I've had some lovely blooms.
Chatting to my Dad about giants and mentioned that I couldn't grow giants. Why not? Weather, lack of space etc. Dad suggested Trooper Dan which I said I didn't like but he said that it can be entered into large or giant classes and doesn't grow that big. So I gave it a go and again I've been lucky. Talking to my family that I was going to grow a big dahlia, my family were disappointed that it wasn't going to be a Sir Alf because it really is big, big... so I ended up growing Sir Alf. At a show I fell in love with this stunning deep, deep red big dahlia called Kenora Valentine and I really wanted to grow it because I think it is beautiful. Dad warned me that the exhibits at the show are Kenora Valentines that are grown under cover. Without covers I wouldn't be able to get that stunning deep red that those on display are. Went to this years Plant sale asked my Husband to pick a variety based on it's description, he picked Kenora Valentine and so I went home very happy.
I saw Vals Candy growing in my Dad's garden and told him that I wanted to grow that next year but Dad suggested that I grow Hillcrest if I want to grow one of the Candys as Val's Candy marks too easily. So I'm going to avoid that one and don't think that I'm going to bother with the Hillcrest because I liked the colours in Val's.
So my intention had been to only grow miniatures and would recommend miniatures or poms to people beginning
to grow dahlias with the possible eye to at one point showing them. My
personal favourites are the Westons with Weston Pirate as my all time
favourite. Downham Royal is a deep purple ball dahlia. I'm growing
Marston George dec this year as well and that is stunning.
I was extremely lucky with my dahlias last year even with torrential rain before and during cutting for my show.
My Eastwood Moonlights, Peach Delight have been much better this year. I wouldn't have entered them in shows otherwise. Kenora Valentine still looked lovely, lighter than the ones that I saw at the show recently and a lot smaller because I didn't do the disbudding etc. early enough. My Sir Alfs are big and strong but just buds (my fault they were planted later) won't know what they will be like until they bloom. My Dad grows Eastwood Moonlight, Cream Moonlight, White Moonlight, Hillcrest Candy, Val's and Sir Alfs without covers and exhibits them.
Using covers seems to enable dahlia growers with a lot more possibilities but even so, if you fancy a challenge growing these varieties, there is no harm in having a go. You might get lucky to. 
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Post by Raymond on Aug 27, 2014 23:07:28 GMT
Great post moonlight. I am gonna grow what I want and grow it properly will take into consideration size etc... But decided no showing for at least 2 years if ever as to much to do with all the garden just to focus on dahlias and I have much to learn about dahlias not only in growing them but in storing , cultivating etc.... I will take my time and try things. Still going to join the societies etc... I want to gain as much knowledge as possible. Showing is a big commitment and I greatly admire the commitment and skill shown by the amazing gardeners on this forum
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Post by Moonlight on Aug 28, 2014 0:27:16 GMT
The other things regarding Moonlights is the fact that I'm not growing them with an eye to exhibiting at the National or Harrogate. I grew one Eastwood Moonlight last year, this year I'm growing two. If however I was growing 40 Eastwood Moonlights with plans to show at the National or Harrogate or if my livelihood was based on raising top quality dahlias - I would use covers.
My Eastwood Moonlights enjoying the sun in my garden, down South. Not all the way down to St Ives but still a Southerner. I can't speak for White, Cream, Pims, Lauren etc. but Eastwood Moonlight is a Southerner just like me.
p.s. Raymond, markb and woodforddahlias6 know what they are talking about, I've learnt a lot from reading their posts. the difference for us is we are both very much beginners in growing dahlias and they have years of experience and grow a vastly different number of dahlias to us. An unsuccessful year growing a dahlia that doesn't do well for us would be disappointing but for larger growers, in the South it wouldn't be worth the gamble, naturally they will want to grow alternatives that they prefer and find more successful.
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Post by Raymond on Aug 28, 2014 6:48:11 GMT
I totally agree we what you have said. For example I have 2 collarettes in my front garden that have not grown well all spindly etc... Mostly my fault did not tie them in properly. They have flowered with lots of flowers look ok but that is all look ok in my garden.
Would never show them and won't grow them again as don't like them. May not grow dahlias again next year at all in the front garden.
I listen and read all the advise given on these forums by people taking time out of their busy lives to do so and I very very much appreciate that and I am learning quickly. Can't change much now but next year yes.
Here's to fab blooms on the show bench and in peoples gardens. As we are all dahlia lovers.
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Post by Moonlight on Aug 28, 2014 7:44:38 GMT
I am learning quickly. Can't change much now but next year yes. Here's to fab blooms on the show bench and in peoples gardens. As we are all dahlia lovers. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 9:17:50 GMT
I am learning quickly. Can't change much now but next year yes. Here's to fab blooms on the show bench and in peoples gardens. As we are all dahlia lovers. My sentiments exactly |
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Post by markb on Aug 28, 2014 9:30:24 GMT
I totally agree we what you have said. For example I have 2 collarettes in my front garden that have not grown well all spindly etc... Mostly my fault did not tie them in properly. They have flowered with lots of flowers look ok but that is all look ok in my garden. Would never show them and won't grow them again as don't like them. May not grow dahlias again next year at all in the front garden. I listen and read all the advise given on these forums by people taking time out of their busy lives to do so and I very very much appreciate that and I am learning quickly. Can't change much now but next year yes. Here's to fab blooms on the show bench and in peoples gardens. As we are all dahlia lovers. Is it just the two collerettes you have or collerettes in general that you dislike? I'm not too fond of them myself but they do light up a garden and the bees and butterflies love them - at least on my allotment they do. I grow two - one is 'Ann Breckenfelder' which is red and yellow, the other is an all yellow seedling of mine. I grow these at the back of one plot with an assortment of single-flowered seedlings of mine. They do get their petals damaged by heavy rain but I just cut the damaged blooms off and within a week the plants are a mass of flowers again. But as you say if you don't like them at all, then don't waste space on them. Regarding large flowered types I can recommend 'Hillcrest Duncan Edwards'. This is dark red semi-cactus which this year has stood outside uncovered in all the weather that we have had in Wales and has not marked or faded at all. It will make a good medium size if plenty of flowers left on or a good large/giant if restricted to three to five blooms. You're garden is amazing considering the short time you've had it. Good luck with whatever you decide to grow next season. Another alternative would be to save seed from what you have and grow it on, keep what you like and discard what you don't. You never know what you will get from seedlings, which is why they are so much fun to grow |
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Post by Raymond on Aug 28, 2014 9:46:02 GMT
Hi Mark I like collarettes one of my fav is pooh. I don't like them in the spot they are in mostly. One is impression fabula and the other harteenas. Harteenas was lovely but the spot they are in is a small corner bed that just does not get enough water as partly covered. My fault they are looking bad really. Neglected them and also did not tie them in properly at all. I love seeing the bees on the collarettes and singles. Rain does wash the petals off easily but happens with the med and large decs as well if heavy. Falling in love with the darker foliage varieties I have 2 Lolo love and mignon sunshine love the leaf colour. Getting englehardts matador as dark foliage decorative my friend grows it and I liked it very much.
Never harvested seed before. I must try that. How do you do it ?
I have a lot of Bedding dahlias so would be good to take seed from them also. Would like in the future to try lots of seedlings. One bedding keeps sporting which is fun. Even my Jean Marie bicolour lilac Dec one flower all white and lilac with one petal red and white. Weird but interesting.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 9:54:54 GMT
EXACTLY !! Many of the varieties I grow never get showed, but I like them.
My front garden is for the non show stuff, I have a row of 30 poms along the fence on the road, 10 gurtla twilight, 10 Moore place and 10 Hallmark.
Inside my front garden I grow 14 varieties 5 plants of each. These are purely for a splash of colour. The tallest at the back - 4 1/2 ft down to the shortest about 3 1/2 foot. I do disbud them and stake, tie etc. They get sprayed weekly as do all my plants but these are to make the front garden eye catching.
In my back garden I grow about 250, 10 varieties with 25 plants of each. The miniatures don't get covered, but the smalls upwards have protection in the form of a large 50mm poly-tunnel frame which is 14ft high by 40 ft long by 20 ft wide.
The covers go on the 2nd week in August just as bud colour starts to show.
I also pot tuber security stock which will be 10-15 of each variety in 1 ltr square pots.
My seedling bed is 20ft x 20ft, with as many seedling plants chucked in as I can get spaced only 6-8 inches apart. These are allowed to grow one up on the crown bud. They are pulled up the minute they show their flower that's providing they are a no go, which is 95% of them. The ones that are good enough to be retained are kept in the seedling bed and are grown 2-3 plants of each from the original tuber as split tubers the next year. If they continue to show promise after year 2, the 2-3 split tubers will be used to propagate from as in cuttings on year 3 but only lightly.
I will also pot tuber again security stock of promising seedlings in year 3. So all told a seedling before it is considered for showing will take 5 years or there abouts.
Over propagating half baked seedlings too quickly results in the stock breaking down. A new seedling which looks reasonably good needs time to settle down and we as growers need to establish its growing habits and how it can be grown to its true potential. Most year 1 seedlings end up binned in year two. Every once in a while a nice one comes along, but that is rare.
The big boys who churn out numerous new releases a year, grow thousands of seedlings with only a very small percentage ending up in our gardens or allotments. There are good seed barers and good seed parents, no point collecting seed from a poor variety with lots of faults these only get carried forward.
Every variety has its faults, even the show bankers. I tend to grow varieties that will produce the most number of showable blooms on any given plant, but our growing techniques and care can obviously increase this ratio.
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Post by markb on Aug 28, 2014 10:04:43 GMT
Hi Mark I like collarettes one of my fav is pooh. I don't like them in the spot they are in mostly. One is impression fabula and the other harteenas. Harteenas was lovely but the spot they are in is a small corner bed that just does not get enough water as partly covered. My fault they are looking bad really. Neglected them and also did not tie them in properly at all. I love seeing the bees on the collarettes and singles. Rain does wash the petals off easily but happens with the med and large decs as well if heavy. Falling in love with the darker foliage varieties I have 2 Lolo love and mignon sunshine love the leaf colour. Getting englehardts matador as dark foliage decorative my friend grows it and I liked it very much. Never harvested seed before. I must try that. How do you do it ? I have a lot of Bedding dahlias so would be good to take seed from them also. Would like in the future to try lots of seedlings. One bedding keeps sporting which is fun. Even my Jean Marie bicolour lilac Dec one flower all white and lilac with one petal red and white. Weird but interesting. Mine don't get any attention either, other than cutting off dead blooms. To save seed you need to NOT take the dead flowers off and leave the seed head on the plant until late September/early October. I then cut the seed head of with about 12in of stem attached and take them to the shed or greenhouse to continue to dry out. Once dry they can be kept in a paper bag until spring when they can be sown in trays indoors. Single-flowered types - such as collerettes - set seed easier than double types but just because you sow seed saved from a collerette does not mean you will get any collerette seedlings. Dahlias cross with each other readily so you could get a cactus, single or anything else. I've even had a fimbriated single in the past which when I showed it to experts at the time I was told it is not possible to get a fimbriated single. The only person who believed it was Dave Bates, and that was because he'd had one the same year Growing your own dahlias from seed is fun and whatever you get will be YOUR seedling even if sometimes they look like existing varieties. It also adds an extra interest to growing the flower. I used to grow about 100 seedlings a year but stopped because I was giving all my attention to the seedlings and neglecting the show blooms. This is especially true once the seedlings start to bloom and you start to feel like a kid on Christmas morning wondering what presents they've got, and every day you go to the seedlings and wonder what new surprises there will be. |
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Post by Raymond on Aug 28, 2014 14:18:45 GMT
I'm going to try it and see what happens s! Many thanks Mark for all the advise lots to do with the whole garden not just the dahlias going to be very busy this autumn winter and spring. Will definitely take some seed and sow it in the spring.
All the best. Are you showing at nationals ? If so good luck and good luck to all showing from the forums.
I can only attend the Kent show as I have work commitments.
All the best
Raymond
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Post by Raymond on Aug 28, 2014 14:47:56 GMT
EXACTLY !! Many of the varieties I grow never get showed, but I like them. My front garden is for the non show stuff, I have a row of 30 poms along the fence on the road, 10 gurtla twilight, 10 Moore place and 10 Hallmark. Inside my front garden I grow 14 varieties 5 plants of each. These are purely for a splash of colour. The tallest at the back - 4 1/2 ft down to the shortest about 3 1/2 foot. I do disbud them and stake, tie etc. They get sprayed weekly as do all my plants but these are to make the front garden eye catching. In my back garden I grow about 250, 10 varieties with 25 plants of each. The miniatures don't get covered, but the smalls upwards have protection in the form of a large 50mm poly-tunnel frame which is 14ft high by 40 ft long by 20 ft wide. The covers go on the 2nd week in August just as bud colour starts to show. I also pot tuber security stock which will be 10-15 of each variety in 1 ltr square pots. My seedling bed is 20ft x 20ft, with as many seedling plants chucked in as I can get spaced only 6-8 inches apart. These are allowed to grow one up on the crown bud. They are pulled up the minute they show their flower that's providing they are a no go, which is 95% of them. The ones that are good enough to be retained are kept in the seedling bed and are grown 2-3 plants of each from the original tuber as split tubers the next year. If they continue to show promise after year 2, the 2-3 split tubers will be used to propagate from as in cuttings on year 3 but only lightly. I will also pot tuber again security stock of promising seedlings in year 3. So all told a seedling before it is considered for showing will take 5 years or there abouts. Over propagating half baked seedlings too quickly results in the stock breaking down. A new seedling which looks reasonably good needs time to settle down and we as growers need to establish its growing habits and how it can be grown to its true potential. Most year 1 seedlings end up binned in year two. Every once in a while a nice one comes along, but that is rare. The big boys who churn out numerous new releases a year, grow thousands of seedlings with only a very small percentage ending up in our gardens or allotments. There are good seed barers and good seed parents, no point collecting seed from a poor variety with lots of faults these only get carried forward. Every variety has its faults, even the show bankers. I tend to grow varieties that will produce the most number of showable blooms on any given plant, but our growing techniques and care can obviously increase this ratio. Your a busy man ! Thanks for the advise. Could not dedicate the amount of space from the garden as you do most of the shrubs and trees would need ripping up. Good luck with any shows you are competing in. Going to plan and plant my main dahlia bed properly next year using correct techniques and much more focus so need to get all the other stuff done well in advance. Will try some new varieties both exhibition and garden but staying clear of giants will do more cactus semi cactus minature and poms some med Dec and a coulple of large Dec I like. Going to also try a couple of anemone and waterlily. I do 100% want Ken stocks Mayan pearl a double orchid which I think is a beauty and will sit nicely alongside my other plants. Will try some seedling for fun and grow much more not just dahlias from seed. I like asters and gazania and want to do many more of them . All the best Raymond |
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Post by markb on Aug 28, 2014 14:55:09 GMT
I'm going to try it and see what happens s! Many thanks Mark for all the advise lots to do with the whole garden not just the dahlias going to be very busy this autumn winter and spring. Will definitely take some seed and sow it in the spring. All the best. Are you showing at nationals ? If so good luck and good luck to all showing from the forums. I can only attend the Kent show as I have work commitments. All the best Raymond Thanks Raymond. No, I won't be at the Nationals, I have to be in work the week of Wisley show so I can get to the National Veg Championships in Dorset on that weekend. I'm no longer a member of the National Dahlia Society so couldn't show anyway. My season seems to run from Royal Welsh Show at end of July to maybe the Welsh National/Midlands on the August Bank Holiday weekend - if the weather is kind. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 15:58:37 GMT
EXACTLY !! Many of the varieties I grow never get showed, but I like them. My front garden is for the non show stuff, I have a row of 30 poms along the fence on the road, 10 gurtla twilight, 10 Moore place and 10 Hallmark. Inside my front garden I grow 14 varieties 5 plants of each. These are purely for a splash of colour. The tallest at the back - 4 1/2 ft down to the shortest about 3 1/2 foot. I do disbud them and stake, tie etc. They get sprayed weekly as do all my plants but these are to make the front garden eye catching. In my back garden I grow about 250, 10 varieties with 25 plants of each. The miniatures don't get covered, but the smalls upwards have protection in the form of a large 50mm poly-tunnel frame which is 14ft high by 40 ft long by 20 ft wide. The covers go on the 2nd week in August just as bud colour starts to show. I also pot tuber security stock which will be 10-15 of each variety in 1 ltr square pots. My seedling bed is 20ft x 20ft, with as many seedling plants chucked in as I can get spaced only 6-8 inches apart. These are allowed to grow one up on the crown bud. They are pulled up the minute they show their flower that's providing they are a no go, which is 95% of them. The ones that are good enough to be retained are kept in the seedling bed and are grown 2-3 plants of each from the original tuber as split tubers the next year. If they continue to show promise after year 2, the 2-3 split tubers will be used to propagate from as in cuttings on year 3 but only lightly. I will also pot tuber again security stock of promising seedlings in year 3. So all told a seedling before it is considered for showing will take 5 years or there abouts. Over propagating half baked seedlings too quickly results in the stock breaking down. A new seedling which looks reasonably good needs time to settle down and we as growers need to establish its growing habits and how it can be grown to its true potential. Most year 1 seedlings end up binned in year two. Every once in a while a nice one comes along, but that is rare. The big boys who churn out numerous new releases a year, grow thousands of seedlings with only a very small percentage ending up in our gardens or allotments. There are good seed barers and good seed parents, no point collecting seed from a poor variety with lots of faults these only get carried forward. Every variety has its faults, even the show bankers. I tend to grow varieties that will produce the most number of showable blooms on any given plant, but our growing techniques and care can obviously increase this ratio. Your a busy man ! Thanks for the advise. Could not dedicate the amount of space from the garden as you do most of the shrubs and trees would need ripping up. Good luck with any shows you are competing in. Going to plan and plant my main dahlia bed properly next year using correct techniques and much more focus so need to get all the other stuff done well in advance. Will try some new varieties both exhibition and garden but staying clear of giants will do more cactus semi cactus minature and poms some med Dec and a coulple of large Dec I like. Going to also try a couple of anemone and waterlily. I do 100% want Ken stocks Mayan pearl a double orchid which I think is a beauty and will sit nicely alongside my other plants. Will try some seedling for fun and grow much more not just dahlias from seed. I like asters and gazania and want to do many more of them . All the best Raymond Thanks Raymond, Yes time !! need more of it I'm afraid. We had steady rain last night with wind today. Not good !! This on top of Sundays wind and rain. Have dumped loads of damaged blooms. Hopefully enough for Birmingham Dahlia Society show on Saturday. Plenty of 3 bloom vase classes in the members division so all is not lost. Damping off is a problem, cool misty nights with the temp in single figures has its pitfalls. As long as I can make a half decent entry. |
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Post by MarkE on Aug 28, 2014 16:04:27 GMT
Your a busy man ! Thanks for the advise. Could not dedicate the amount of space from the garden as you do most of the shrubs and trees would need ripping up. Good luck with any shows you are competing in. Going to plan and plant my main dahlia bed properly next year using correct techniques and much more focus so need to get all the other stuff done well in advance. Will try some new varieties both exhibition and garden but staying clear of giants will do more cactus semi cactus minature and poms some med Dec and a coulple of large Dec I like. Going to also try a couple of anemone and waterlily. I do 100% want Ken stocks Mayan pearl a double orchid which I think is a beauty and will sit nicely alongside my other plants. Will try some seedling for fun and grow much more not just dahlias from seed. I like asters and gazania and want to do many more of them . All the best Raymond Thanks Raymond, Yes time !! need more of it I'm afraid. We had steady rain last night with wind today. Not good !! This on top of Sundays wind and rain. Have dumped loads of damaged blooms. Hopefully enough for Birmingham Dahlia Society show on Saturday. Plenty of 3 bloom vase classes in the members division so all is not lost. Damping off is a problem, cool misty nights with the temp in single figures has its pitfalls. As long as I can make a half decent entry. sorry to intrude on your conversation but I was wondering what is meant by damping off, you hear it alot and I'm just not sure what it means? Mark |
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