Dahlias 2012 season

[Tel]

You are putting yours in, over here they have been or are been dug up. ;D

[Tel]

Over 600 dahlia seeds collected in 2011, this year 56
Plus a few collarette seeds i found in a envelope after it was too late to sow them this year, hope they will be ok for 2013, never stored dahlia seeds for more than 6 months upto now that is.

[marynz]

Yes, they will germinate well in the second year. Some of the US breeders always keep some seed to sow the second year. I have read two reasons for this:
1. They may have a bad seed production year, when they will need the reserved seed.
2. Some of them believe that there is a germination inhibitor on seeds which are genetically coded to be fully double, and that this breaks down over time, so you will get more fully double seedlings from second year seeds.
Obviously the second point will not help you with your collarettes, but be assured that the seed should last until spring.

[Tel]

Thanks for the info Mary, It makes a change for someone to tell me something about dahlia's. ;D

[scrumpy]

If a germination inhibitor exists then I am buggs bunny and I live with the fairies and unicorns at the bottom of my garden

[marynz]

Obviously it is not a total inhibitor, Scrumpy, or nothing double would sprout in the first year. However, it has been asserted that a higher percentage of doubles will germinate in the second year, and that some form of germination inhibition may explain it. So, if there is a partial inhibitor, the pertinent research question now may be whether you are partially bunny... or people could try small scale experimentation of their own, if they are curious types.

[scrumpy]

A seed either germinates or it doesn't.
You have answered the question by saying some germinate in the first year.
The only way of attempting to prove that theory is to collect seeds in year one. Sow an exact quantity and see what you get.
In year two you collect the seeds, sow the same number, but don't sow them until the following year. Then see what you get.
In each case, you need to record the number of seeds that fail to germinate.
In both cases you need to hand pollinate from the same known parents.
When I see that information i'll believe it.

[marynz]

What has happened is that people have collected seeds in a single year and split the results of each cross in half, so that the two halves were genetically comparable. They have sowed half of the seeds from each cross the spring after collecting the seed and half the following spring. They have recorded the percentage of doubles from each year, and found a higher percentage of doubles overall from seeds sown in the second spring. I don't know who did it, but I believe it was in North America.

[marynz]

If my work load is lower at seed collecting time this season (fat chance) I may collect enough seeds to be worth splitting my sample.

[scrumpy]

Nov 14, 2012 7:17:18 GMT marynz said:

What has happened is that people have collected seeds in a single year and split the results of each cross in half, so that the two halves were genetically comparable. They have sowed half of the seeds from each cross the spring after collecting the seed and half the following spring. They have recorded the percentage of doubles from each year, and found a higher percentage of doubles overall from seeds sown in the second spring. I don't know who did it, but I believe it was in North America.

Like i said, the only way is to sow all seeds 2 years after collecting. Then measure the percentage of doubles.
Mathematically, it's an easy calculation.
You cannot base a theory on how they have done it.
Another argument is that the non double seeds lose their viability with time, which would be a more logical explanation.

[marynz]

Nov 14, 2012 10:50:48 GMT scrumpy said:

Another argument is that the non double seeds lose their viability with time, which would be a more logical explanation.

I had wondered about this, too. If this is the case, it would also be convenient for someone only wishing to raise fully double seedlings, as it would reduce the number of culls grown. Anyway, as I say, people can experiment on their own and see whether it seems to hold true for them, if they have time and space.

[marynz]

Starting to get a few better flowers. Nenekazi is looking good today. May have time for a photo tomorrow. Had some decent rain yesterday, which has made me very happy.

[marynz]

Nenekazi

[Tel]

That is a nice Fib Mary. ;D

[marynz]

Thanks! It is supposed to last well in a vase, too, but I haven't tried that yet. It is the best flower I have had on anything so far.

I try to keep a photographic record of the good that bad and the ugly, with a few notes for my own later use. Here are the photos I have had time to take and upload from the season to date: www.flickr.com/photos/mary_on_flickr/sets/72157631808009866/